We welcome any query on Who When Where. If you have previously posted it on another forum (including the old WDYTYA forum), please state this in your opening post - this will save people redoing the research which has been done before: they can look at it and possibly go further with it.

Find my Past subscriptions

A space for genealogy-related conversations.
User avatar
AdrianBruce
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 Jun 2020, 18:57
Location: South Cheshire

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by AdrianBruce »

My problem is that FamilySearch puts itself forward as being several things. One of those things is a software house whose ultimate aim, yes, is to support the compilation of Ordinances for the LDS Church. But as a software house it fails miserably to conform to basic software practices. For instance, it doesn't ever introduce new features to its user base before implementation. Usually it releases the software and the week after we get a blog item telling us what we already know. Then, when people like myself (a non-Church member) and Church members with extensive IT experience, try to persuade FS in their Community that publicity before implementation would be a good idea, we get the brush off with all the stuff about volunteers, etc. No, sorry, processes can be carried out professionally even when not paid for.

Then there was RootsTech this year, where FamilySearch was to announce GEDCOM 7. The initial talk (of 2) was streamed; the first cut designs were published - then everything was withdrawn and deleted during the course of RootsTech - they even leaned on private bloggers to withdraw their announcements. I have no idea why but it left a nasty taste.

As for not knowing the coverage, the ultimate vision of FS FamilyTree is not to produce an ordinance for every birth, marriage or whatever - it's to put all these families together so that ultimately, there is one profile per human who has ever lived. (No, I know that's not feasible but it's the simplest way of describing it). To connect all the baptisms and births together, as the vision desires, we need to know if the Hugh Billington (say) over here in Nantwich might be the same as the Hugh Billington over there in Winsford parish (say). Part of the logic to do that has to be a view on how many Hugh B records in the area might be missing. If only 25% of Cheshire records are in the system, it's a fairly pointless guess without further data. But if 97% of Cheshire records are in their system, and these are the only two possibilities, then it becomes well worth investigating. But we need that coverage data to prioritise starting our genealogical processes.

Church members who are expert genealogists are tearing their hair out over the fact that the same (deceased) people are having the same ordinances performed on their behalf again and again and again, because the genealogy behind is not being tackled properly. The underlying issues are not simple ones, by the way, but there seems a reluctance from FS to acknowledge the issues.
Adrian Bruce
User avatar
AdrianBruce
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 Jun 2020, 18:57
Location: South Cheshire

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by AdrianBruce »

Guy wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 08:09... These Church Ordinances are 100% accurate and 100% complete, no other dataset used by family historians can claim that. ...
And are totally off limits to non-Church members.
Adrian Bruce
User avatar
Guy
Posts: 135
Joined: 01 Jun 2020, 19:14
Location: Wakefield
Contact:

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by Guy »

No, they can be accessed by non members, it just depends on where you look.
I am not a member of the LDS yet have access to LDS Baptism, Endowment & Sealing records.
Cheers
Guy
As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.
User avatar
AdrianBruce
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 Jun 2020, 18:57
Location: South Cheshire

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by AdrianBruce »

Guy wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 05:14 ... I am not a member of the LDS yet have access to LDS Baptism, Endowment & Sealing records. ...
Really? Oh!
Adrian Bruce
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 506
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by Norfolk Nan »

Back to FindMyPast - I’ve been raking through Buckinghamshire records this weekend because they do a better job than Ancestry for that county but it’s still pretty poor. So many multiple records of one event - seven is the most so far - not to mention the obvious errors such as the same couple marrying exactly 100 years apart (3 examples so far) - I dare say some researcher will think that’s an amazing coincidence. Seems to me that FMP is of the quantity rather than quality school of commercial enterprise. Why do subscribers put up with such careless service?
meekhcs
Posts: 468
Joined: 02 Jun 2020, 18:19
Location: Lincolnshire, but Hampshire born and bred!

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by meekhcs »

Because at the end of the day these sites are convenient for those among us who want a quick fix, rather than spend time (years!!), in order to put Trees together!

How many pounds have we all spent in trying to research our Family Lines correctly? Far more than a years subscription to one of these sites I will wager. They are a business who happen to supply online records for us to use in the comfort of our armchair. They are not overly bothered about the accuracy of their records or the Trees that are produced from them.
Sally
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 506
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by Norfolk Nan »

I suppose 'Caveat Emptor' (buyer beware) applies. Personally, I'd like a slicker service but it'll never happen. :roll:
User avatar
Guy
Posts: 135
Joined: 01 Jun 2020, 19:14
Location: Wakefield
Contact:

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by Guy »

No it is really very simple, most people who complain about inaccurate records are the people who copy trees, it is possible for transcriptions to contain errors, we all know that and try to use them as an index to the original record whenever possible but in some cases the original record no longer exists. I should point out errors in trees accidental and deliberate is nothing new even some Heralds falsified pedigrees for clients in the 16th and 17th centuries so why would things be different now.

In all cases the general rule is to use multiple different records to confirm any event.
There are also a few cases where the original record is not correct, whether because the wrong information was given at the time or the person giving the information gave false information on purpose. Here again using multiple different records, note records not sources to confirm any event will normally shown the anomaly.

The various companies are there to make money and they do that by providing resources and these resources are a mixture of digital images of original records, transcriptions and digital images of previously published books of transcriptions. Some also allow subscribers to host their own trees on the company web site but few if any of the supplied records are checked for accuracy. None of the companies deliberately host false information but I doubt if any of the providers would claim everything they host is correct in every detail.
We the users have to use common sense and our own judgement to compile our own trees.
Cheers
Guy
As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.
meekhcs
Posts: 468
Joined: 02 Jun 2020, 18:19
Location: Lincolnshire, but Hampshire born and bred!

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by meekhcs »

Guy Wrote
No it is really very simple, most people who complain about inaccurate records are the people who copy trees
I disagree. Nothing annoys me more than to find inaccuracies. If I spend a period of time searching on one of the main fee paying sites, a goodly part of that time is spent in sending corrections. I appreciate there will always be inaccuracies, nothing is 100% correct, but when I return to a record several months later and it still hasn't been corrected, then I question the sites priority.
In all cases the general rule is to use multiple different records to confirm any event.
Absolutely
The various companies are there to make money and they do that by providing resources
Again I agree, but I also think as part of the quest to make money they are following trends. The big main sites have always been in competition and will continue to be so. Everybody benefits from the vast number of records they each hold, and I have found them useful . In order to try and gain the upper hand and add more and more to their site, they each turned to Index only Transcriptions. Many of these, prepared in haste, contain many inaccuracies. How are people supposed to find parish register entries by using them, and how are we supoosed to submit corrections? Now the emphasis is turning to DNA..............

And finally yes the onus is on us to to use common sense and our own judgement in compiling our Trees, but I also feel there should be some onus on the Sites to maintain themselve to the best of their ability regarding the records they hold and the services they offer, and I don't think that necessarily happens these days.
Sally
Hardwork
Posts: 86
Joined: 14 Jun 2020, 14:15

Re: Find my Past subscriptions

Post by Hardwork »

The point regarding FMP is that they have purchased databases from different sources that contain the same records, hence why multiple entries can occur for a single event. They don't weed out duplications, nor should they, as the transcriptions themselves can have variants. I'm doing a single name study and am trawling Essex indexes at present at FMP. I know that they are not always complete because I have previously dipped into the original records from the Essex Records Office (SEAX), but the coverage is more than reasonable and I have only adopted this way of working for speed and cost, but will still check everyone against the parish register images at SEAX before assuming it is correct.
Post Reply