We welcome any query on Who When Where. If you have previously posted it on another forum (including the old WDYTYA forum), please state this in your opening post - this will save people redoing the research which has been done before: they can look at it and possibly go further with it.

18th century baptism (TMI)

A space for genealogy-related conversations.
Post Reply
VALLMO9
Posts: 766
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

18th century baptism (TMI)

Post by VALLMO9 »

This soap opera of a baptismal note made me chuckle. File this baptism under "Too Much Information". :roll:

"Sara Lay had one Bastard before & was big with this child when said to be married. Her Husband never Bedded her after this pretended Marriage. W. Lock. overseers bought a ring which the fellow refused to put on [nor would lay his hand upon] it [when] was put on by Her father. They went first to Wantage to be married. But behav'd so impudently, Mr Birch, tho their Minister, refused to join them. Then they went to Ardington, And she being Heavy & behinde, Asked some neighbours how far Old Whistling William (so she call'd him she was going to marry) was before. He likewise behav'd most impudently in Ardington Church, so I looking on this not as True Matrimony, But a prophanation of ye Holy Ordinance, registered the child in her name only. When I promised the Grandfather, a very good poor man, to baptize the child, I told Him I would not church his Daughter"

Surprised the end of that note didn't end with "So There!" Methinks this vicar was up in peoples' business a bit too much. :o
Did he have an 18th century version of CCTV surveillance in the villages? Otherwise known as "biddies gossiping round the clothesline". :lol: This vicar scores points for creatively using the word "prophanation" in his notes.
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 506
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: 18th century baptism (TMI)

Post by Norfolk Nan »

I really love finding interesting snippets like this one! I’ve found a few but never quite like this :lol: I did find a page amongst a collection of settlement docs annotated with 200 year old shorthand yesterday but I couldn’t read it - wonder if anyone has recently! Wish I knew what it said!
VALLMO9
Posts: 766
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: 18th century baptism (TMI)

Post by VALLMO9 »

Norfolk Nan wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 17:43 I did find a page amongst a collection of settlement docs annotated with 200 year old shorthand yesterday but I couldn’t read it
Are you certain the page was written in shorthand (and not abbreviations)? Abbreviations were used in London Poor Law Records back in the day. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/a ... -1581-1899

I have a Victorian coroner's inquest report which contains some shorthand. Had to get my secretary Mum to transcribe the shorthand for me. It was a bonus that she'd been a medical secretary in hospitals. So she didn't bat an eye at the medical shorthand in the inquest record.
Last edited by VALLMO9 on 26 Sep 2022, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
Mick Loney
Posts: 377
Joined: 15 Jun 2020, 07:27

Re: 18th century baptism (TMI)

Post by Mick Loney »

I think youngsters with their knowledge of texting shorthand, may excel at this!


We’ve all seen ‘ye old tea shoppe’, but how many realise the ‘ye’ was simply a written shorthand for ‘the’!
Reading old documents, one comes across many such abbreviation in common use. Sadly, most have slipped from common usage, so appear as gibberish to us in the 21st century!
User avatar
AdrianBruce
Posts: 361
Joined: 14 Jun 2020, 18:57
Location: South Cheshire

Re: 18th century baptism (TMI)

Post by AdrianBruce »

Mick Loney wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 19:01... how many realise the ‘ye’ was simply a written shorthand for ‘the’! ...
It wasn't shorthand as such - the "y" in "ye" was the best that printers could do for the letter "thorn" ( Þ ) which was pronounced "th", though don't ask me whether it was both the voiced (as in "that") and unvoiced (as in "Ethel") - I think that the answers to that may be different in English, Icelandic and Tolkien's Elvish languages(!)

So one proper way of writing the word we now know as "the", was "Þe", which the printers decided to render as "ye". But in all cases it was pronounced "the", never "yee" until "Yee Oldeee Tea Shoppeeee" came along.

And similar issues existed with the Scots letter "yogh", ( ȝ ), which looked like a "z", but was pronounced sort-of-closer to a "g" sound in Scots. It's why the newspaper shop chain is pronounced "Menzies" with a "zee" in England and "Mingis" with a hard "g" in Scotland. Roughly.
Adrian Bruce
Post Reply