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VALLMO9 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2023, 16:29
Sheila - Have you checked Nora Maud's siblings' baptism records for marriage annotation notes (and dates, if any)?
Also, check the husband's baptism record image (if available). See if his has the same annotation as Nora Maud's record.
Did Nora Maud marry before 1928? Seems a bit old (age 47) for her to marry, if that was her only marriage.
Suggestion: try searching for baptism record images either side of Nora Maud's circa 1881. These would be the Plymouth, Cathedral Church of Ss Mary & Boniface baptisms. Perhaps those baptism images have similar marriage annotations and dates (for comparison). Might be worth checking.
None of Nora's siblings have notes added to their baptism records.
Nora was living with another man before she married George but no marriage record can be found.
Looking at baptism records before and after Nora's has been useful. A few did have notes added and some are easier to read than the note added to Nora's. Most seem to read 'Ipse matrimonium contraxit cum' followed by the name of the spouse, place of marriage and a date. It looks like this is probably what is written on Nora's record but poorly written. Therefore I don't think it refers to any annulment. But I don't understand why the note has the date of 1950 when there is a marriage record on Scotlands People for Nora and George in 1928.
Thank you for posting what it says on other baptisms - it just goes to show how very hard it can be to decipher what has been written. I don't think I would have ever read that first letter as an 'i' but your last interpretation makes a lot more sense even if it doesn't solve your initial problem.
Hi Sheila. I don't think it's the same sentence. That seems to say...'He himself contracted the marriage with...' Perhaps they were of age to not need parent's permission.
I don't think that is the case with Nora. She seems to have upset the church somehow. Maybe by living as a wife then actually marrying someone else in church without saying anything.
p.s. I told the priest, and subsequently wasn't able to be married in church. It happens.
Last edited by Jimbo50 on 04 Apr 2023, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
Sheila wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 10:00
Therefore I don't think it refers to any annulment. But I don't understand why the note has the date of 1950 when there is a marriage record on Scotlands People for Nora and George in 1928.
Perhaps its the date when Nora's baptism record was updated with the marriage details. That's why I suggested checking other baptism records, to ascertain if they also had dates after/next to the annotations.
If you'd like help searching for a possible marriage to the man she was living with, just give us the details.
Jimbo50 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 13:32
Hi Sheila. I don't think it's the same sentence. That seems to say...'He himself contracted the marriage with...' Perhaps they were of age to not need parent's permission.
I don't think that is the case with Nora. She seems to have upset the church somehow. Maybe by living as a wife then actually marrying someone else in church without saying anything.
p.s. I told the priest, and subsequently wasn't able to be married in church. It happens.
The notes added to baptism records appear to be the same for both male and female entries. I did some more Googling and found this...
'What does the Latin word Ipse mean?
In Latin, the intensive pronoun is ipse, ipsa, ipsum. It applies to all three grammatical persons. In other words, the same pronoun can mean “myself,” “yourself,” “himself,” etc. based on the context.'
And yes, Nora most definitely 'upset the church' both by living with a man she was not married to and by having several illegitimate children.
Sheila wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 10:00
If you'd like help searching for a possible marriage to the man she was living with, just give us the details.
Thank you. The 'other man' had the very common name of Charles Wilson and according to Nora's death certificate, he died before her, so I won't pursue him any further.
Interestingly, on Nora's death certificate, issued in 1964, her surname was given as Wilson, the widow of Charles Wilson. No reference is made to George Archibald. On Scottish death records all spouses are usually recorded.
Also, the informant on the death was a nephew with the surname Archibald. The first name initial is not clear but could it possibly be a G for George?
Just to add to the mystery, Nora died following a fire at her home. The Register of Corrected Entries that accompanies the death certificate gives little added information, apart from time of death was between 7.00 am and 6.30 pm. I have been unable to find any newspaper report regarding the fire.
Attachments
1964 Nora Maud Healy Wilson Death Cert copy.jpg (83.96 KiB) Viewed 689 times
So she marries George Archibald, but is referred to as widow of Charles Wilson when she dies. Very odd indeed.
Whereabouts was she living in 1911 and 1921 onwards? Street addresses are especially helpful when searching for newspaper reports, etc.
What were the occupations of Archibald and Wilson? I wonder what brought her to Scotland, seeing as she was born in Plymouth.
The informant looks like "G Archibald" (nephew) to me, as well. The plot thickens...
VALLMO9 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2023, 16:42
So she marries George Archibald, but is referred to as widow of Charles Wilson when she dies. Very odd indeed.
Whereabouts was she living in 1911 and 1921 onwards? Street addresses are especially helpful when searching for newspaper reports, etc.
What were the occupations of Archibald and Wilson? I wonder what brought her to Scotland, seeing as she was born in Plymouth.
The informant looks like "G Archibald" (nephew) to me, as well. The plot thickens...
In 1911 Nora is living as the wife of Charles Wilson in Edinburgh. They say they have been married for 9 years and had 4 children born, one having died. Only one son is living there with them.
In 1921 Nora is still with Charles Wilson in Edinburgh with one son AND George Archibald, aged 19, is boarding there.
The Electoral Roll in 1931 for Edinburgh has Charles, Nora and George all registered at the same address.
I have searched newspapers for the street address where Nora died without success.
Thanks for all suggestions. Definitely an 'interesting' family!
Jimbo50 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2023, 15:37
Yes . I wonder if Charles Wilson died in 1950.
I thought you might be onto something with this but unfortunately not. Surprisingly there are only two deaths for a Charles Wilson around the right age in the whole of Scotland in 1950 and neither are the right man.
