Murray, again

[Norfolk Nan]

Apologies for bringing this family back to the board but here goes...

Mo kindly found a marriage for Thomas and Jane Murray (nee Powney) for 1805 in Ealing, Middx and with the help of Jon* and Settlement/Removal docs I can say this couple had seven children:
Mary c1813,
Jane c1816,
Thomas c1819,
Sophia c1820,
Charlotte c1824,
William c1828,
James c1833.

The settlement papers show the family in Islington with settlement in St Leonard's, Shoreditch but Thomas is unfit to be removed and died in 1843 in Islington while Jane is still there with William in 1851.

My question is this: Thomas and Jane married in 1805 and the first known child arrived in 1813. Should I be suspicious of this gap?

[Mick Loney]

You could see if he was away on military duties, hospital or prison

[Norfolk Nan]

I wondered about that, Mick - I've never been successful with older military records but I'll give it a go...

Update: military records baffle me. Lists of names, nothing to make a connection with. Thomas is a bricklayer in later life, no hint of a military past, I'd imagine something would have been mentioned in those settlement docs?

[VALLMO9]

The 1829 Removal Islington to Shoreditch document does list 6 children, but there may have been earlier births prior to Mary (age 16). Any older children were probably young adults by 1829 and no longer living with the family. So look for suitable birth/baptisms from c1805 to 1812 in Ealing, Shoreditch, and Islington.

[Norfolk Nan]

Haven't found any possibles anywhere in London/Middlesex. Lots up north but wouldn't that sort of detail be mentioned in the settlement papers? They like to find alternative parishes to hand problem families on to...

Sorry for sounding resistant but I’ve seriously looked for any connections for this little family. Obviously I’ve failed so far. I just wondered if anyone thought that 1805-1813 gap might be a clue? Thomas had at least two serious bouts of ill health and eventually died of rheumatic heart disease. If he did marry shortly before heading off to war would the place - Ealing - be significant? First child born c1813 so he’s not away for the full Napoleonic war. I’m thinking out loud but any ideas always gratefully received.

[VALLMO9]

If there were pre-1813 births they might not be online. What sources have you checked so far? Ancestry and FS? Doesn't Ancestry's London parish collection only go up to 1812?

Have you found any baptism records for the Murray children born c1813 to 1833? If not, that could explain why you're not finding any earlier baptisms (if there were any). I vaguely recall Jane's sister also marrying in 1805. I can't remember the groom's name. Wasn't it Simmonds?
I think both marriages were on the same day. Anyway, try searching for any baptisms for her sister's children from 1805 onwards. If you can't find any records it may be an indication that the Murray and/or Simmonds baptisms aren't online at the moment.

EXAMPLE: I see three Simmonds births/baptisms in Shoreditch circa 1806-1808. Parents are James and Sarah. Hard to say if they are related to Jane Murray (nee Powney).

[Norfolk Nan]

Worth following up, Mo, thanks. Yes, there are a number of baptisms in Shoreditch and Westminster to couples called James and Sarah Simmonds but from the clashing dates there are three different couples and the PRs offer no clues. Also, I can't find baptisms for both Jane and Sarah to the same parents.

Btw, Mick's earlier suggestion about military service is a good one and I'd like to know more about recruitment for the 1750-1850 period so if anyone can suggest a good book or article they found useful that would be helpful. Thank you.