Death Philip Neri Parmiter Snr

[meekhcs]

Morning Everyone

If anyone has a spare few minutes could they please double check for a death registration please? In my befuddled Covid state I may have missed it!

The above's death has been a brick wall for some time but yesterday I stumbled across the following Find a Grave entry

Philip Prmiter grave 1879 Swansea.JPG (17.27 KiB) Viewed 1356 times

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200 ... -parmintor for anyone who wishes to check the record in situ. As you can see details are sparse, just a death year and his name is spelt as PHILIP PARMINTOR! Philip was born in 1846 in Dorset to Thomas and Mary (Ayres) Parmiter. He was baptised into the RC faith at the chapel in Lulworth Castle. Thomas and Family all converted to Catholicism after his marriage to his 2nd wife Mary. Joseph Weld was his Landlord

I have checked GRO/Ancestry/FMP and FreeBMD but cannot find the corresponding death registration including wildcards and widening the search out from Swansea where the Family lives.

This grave find fits nicely with my research for him and his Family. His wife Mary (nee Dominey) gave birth to their last child, Alice Beatrice, in December 1879. Philip is recorded as the Father for the baptism 7th Jan 1880 occupation cabinet maker which was his trade. It does not say he was deceased. Philip does not appear on the 1881 census.

Have I missed something?

NB Not to be confused with his son, also called Philip Neri Parmiter who passed away in 1904. I have his death registration and grave details. He was buried in the same cemetery as in Swansea, Danygraig

Thank you

[Mick Loney]

Sally,
There is only a James Parminter death registered in Swansea in 1879 on freebmd i.e. 1879 Q3 Swansea 11a 309, aged 30. and there is only one Philip registered, Philip Kenny, also aged 30
Of course, just because he was buried in Swansea, doesn’t mean he died there, so his death could be registered anywhere, but there are no deaths registered on Freebmd for 1879 when I checked for Parm* Philip!

Don’t know what else to suggest

[meekhcs]

Mick

Thanks for looking.
I had widened the search to cover the UK at some stage. I have found several instances in the Family whereby people died elsewhere but were returned "home" for burial.

I have emailed bereavement services in Swansea to see if the Burial Register for the Cemetery includes any other data. There must have been legal documentation of some sort produced to allow the burial to take place mustn't there? Anthony M would know.

Philip was a lapsed RC. Certainly the deaths of his son and Grandsons were registered correctly a few years later. His wife would have been pregnant for 9 months of the year, giving birth in December. His children were still very young. Registration may have just slipped through the net.

[VALLMO9]

Here's two similar burial mysteries. Same cemetery. Unknown birth year. No suitable death registrations found yet. Hmm.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200 ... rthur-tall
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200 ... edith-tall

A quick look at Danygraig Cemetery Memorials on Find A Grave indicates a lot of burials with "unknown" birth year. Paupers' graves? Would be nice to see photos of actual gravestones, to compare grave details to the online entries on Find A Grave. Although the few photos I've seen are for graves with actual birth years (and sometimes an inscription).

I'm still curious about Arthur and Edith Tall. Why are there no 1880 death registrations for either? Are they in paupers' graves? And if so, did some pauper deaths and burial records slip through the net?

[Norfolk Nan]

Would there be gravestones for paupers?

[AdrianBruce]

Would there be gravestones for paupers?

Firstly the pedant in me (excuse please!) wants to make it clear that the term "pauper" is strictly speaking related to who pays for the burial. I assume that pauper burials will normally be paid for by the council, though I guess that the Poor Law Union might have done it at one time?

The idea of a common (or public) grave is that it's owned by the council, not the family of whoever's buried there.

A pauper's burial will therefore be paid for by the council and it will surely go into a council-owned common / public grave, which will usually contain several burials of totally unrelated people. That makes it very unlikely that there will be a gravestone on top because gravestones are normally only erected where the person paying for the stone already "owns" the grave.

Nothing is impossible, of course, and someone could turn up after the event of a pauper's burial, "buy" the plot and erect a stone. Though how one could deal with a plot containing several unrelated burials, I'm not sure....

[meekhcs]

Thanks Mo

- that is interesting. I have requested photos of the graves for Philip Parmintor 1879 (Plot 31B) and Philip Parmiter, his son, in 1904 (Plot337M). Both of which mention the death year only and no birth year.
By signing into Find a Grave yesterday I found that two sons, who pre deceased their Father, are also buried in the same plot as their Father, Philip jnr.(1904). One passed away in 1897 the other in 1903, which suggested to me that a Family plot had been purchased. All 3 deaths were registered.
However, having just looked further on the website I have found that Plot 337M contains 4 burials, the three Parmiter burials and a Lily M Ferris who died in 1898 None of them include a birth year.
Plot 31B contains 6 Burials , 5 in 1879 and one 33 years later in in 1912!
1879 - John Daniels, Henrietta Jewell, James Morgan, Philip Parmintor and Robert Stacey. 1912 - Frank Chambers. Again no birth years recorded for anyone and I don't recognise any of the other names in either grave.

This becomes more and more curious. I doubt there will be a photo of either grave. It would appear from the evidence that all the Parmiter burials are in paupers graves. In the case of Philip snr with 5 in the same year and one added later because maybe there was still room in the plot I can understand. Philip jnr and sons I am not so sure, 1897,1903 and 1904, and another burial of an unconnected person in 1898. What is the likelihood of Philip Parmiter and his two sons being laid to rest in the same paupers grave with their deaths spanning an eight year period? Unless as Adrian has suggested that it started as a paupers grave and was then bought by the Family.

Hopefully bereavement services will be able to tell me more.

Thank you Nan and Adrian for your input. I think I have covered your thoughts and ideas in the above.

I will go away and investigate the other people in the graves to see if I can find anything and also Danygraig Cemetery itself. What started out as a simple query has morphed into another research project!

[Mick Loney]

Sally,
Try this link, which has a layout of the cemetery
https://archif.abertawe.gov.uk/media/17 ... metery.pdf

Mike

[meekhcs]

Update

Lily M Ferris was in fact the niece of Philip jnr. daughter of his sister Mary. I hadn't extended the Family of Philip snr. beyond his wife, as she remarried, and their son Philip jnr. as he shared the same name as his Father. This adds weight to there being a Family plot in this case.

Lily Margaret Ferris - birth registered Q4 1896 Swansea
- death registered Q4 1897 Swansea
Suggesting she was buried at the beginning of 1898

Mike - thankyou I have seen the Cemetery plan

Onwards..........

[Hardwork]

Also, I would think it less likely that a person who was in a common (paupers') grave would have died far away as who would pay to transport the body any great distance?