We welcome any query on Who When Where. If you have previously posted it on another forum (including the old WDYTYA forum), please state this in your opening post - this will save people redoing the research which has been done before: they can look at it and possibly go further with it.

Thomas Ward marriage

Share your brick walls here, or help others demolish theirs.
jonwarrn
Posts: 170
Joined: 03 Jul 2020, 19:49

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by jonwarrn »

windowframe wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 10:35
Thomas Ward married ? to Mary Christina Byrne, Mary/May was born May 1913 at Castledermot,Kildare,Ireland her parents are:
James Byrne and Rosanna Balfe.
mary/May died 2020 in Ireland.
I forgot to mention that Mary did remarry in 1954 at Smethwick to Joseph Morris.
Marriage to Mr Morris was in Sep qtr 1954, Smethwick RD
From West Midlands BMD
Joseph Morris
+
Mary C Byrne
1954
at Smethwick, St Philip's Roman Catholic Church, Messenger Road

Ireland's Oldest People
May Morris (Byrne) 23 May 1913 - 5 Jan 2020
106 years 227 days

Bios and obits online
Death of 106 year old May Morris, oldest woman in Kildare
"In early 1942, she and 20 other local women were recruited from the Castledermot area to work in a munitions factory near Birmingham. She went to work at Guest, Keen & Nettleford’s factory in Smethwick"

Or
100th Birthday report from 2013
"After school she went to England to work where she met her first husband, who sadly passed away. It was in England that she also met her second husband, Joe Morris, and they lived there until he passed away 47 years ago. She returned to Ireland 30 years ago"

jonwarrn
Posts: 170
Joined: 03 Jul 2020, 19:49

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by jonwarrn »

Or
"She married in Ireland, moved to England and worked in an ammunitions factory in Birmingham. When her husband passed away she continued to work and found work in the hospitality industry."

We can perhaps test the accuracy of some of the info in these items.
jonwarrn wrote:
20 Feb 2021, 10:37
It was in England that she also met her second husband, Joe Morris, and they lived there until he passed away 47 years ago.
Death
June 1965 Smethwick 9b 374
Morris, Joseph
age 55

Probate calendar, 1965
Joseph Morris of 127 Florence Road Smethwick Staffordshire
Died 11 May 1965
Probate to Mary Christina Morris, widow
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Ca ... 6#calendar

jonwarrn
Posts: 170
Joined: 03 Jul 2020, 19:49

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by jonwarrn »

Her birth registration (RD Baltinglass)
Plain Mary here. Parents James Byrne and Rose Byrne, formerly Balfe.
Born 23 May 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 590177.pdf

Marriage of her parents in November 1911 (RD Athy)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 624456.pdf

jonwarrn
Posts: 170
Joined: 03 Jul 2020, 19:49

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by jonwarrn »

Another quote
"She married an English war veteran called Joe Morris, her first husband, called Ward, having passed away."

Then logically she would have married Joseph Morris as Ward. Whereas the indexes say Byrne.

Have you got the will of Joseph Morris? Only £1.50!

windowframe
Posts: 38
Joined: 04 Jul 2020, 07:01

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by windowframe »

A big thank you to jonwarrn for his help and time on Thomas Ward and Mary.
I already have Mary Byrne birth cert. and her marriage cert to Joseph Morris, she married as single and under
her maiden name Byrne.
I also have all the info about her in the papers etc.
Have her parents marriage as well.
My problem is the 2 children born to Thomas Ward and Mary Doyle?? I am guessing that Mary Byrne(her maiden name) did not marry
Thomas Ward, and that maybe the 2 children's mother is Mary Doyle and that Mary Byrne had adopted them and bought them up as
her own. As the children did call her mum thru their lives right up till Mary died in 2020.
Thank you again for your time, and if you do find a marriage for Thomas Ward to Mary Doyle it would be a great.

windowframe
Posts: 38
Joined: 04 Jul 2020, 07:01

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by windowframe »

Thank you Mick Loney for your time and reply.
Mary Byrne is her actual birth name, I have her birth cert.
Mary Byrne was born 1913.
I have checked as many marriages thru parish registers that are available.
Her father's name was James Byrne and her mother was Rosanne Balfe.
I went thru all the marriages on irish genealogy site took a long time,
and could not find anything.
Thanks again.

VALLMO9
Posts: 387
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by VALLMO9 »

jonwarrn wrote:
20 Feb 2021, 12:40
"She married an English war veteran called Joe Morris, her first husband, called Ward, having passed away."
Then logically she would have married Joseph Morris as Ward. Whereas the indexes say Byrne.
Someone from Down Under has a tree on Ancestry (with photos) which includes May Christina Byrne (1914-2020). Her first husband is listed as Thomas Ward (1912-1944). There are two unnamed children listed as "Private".

The same tree indicates Thomas Ward was born in Birmingham. The Ancestry tree owner has also attached this record to him (but it looks like a red herring).

UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
Name: Thomas Ward
Given Initials: T R
Rank: Staff Corporal
Death Date: 20 Mar 1944
Number: 2607974
Birth Place: Birmingham
Residence: Wolverhampton
Regiment at Enlistment: Military Provost Staff Corps
Theatre of War: Far East (other than places specified)

The soldier above can't be the TW you're looking for, as TR Ward was married to a Florence Ann Ward of Twickenham. So it appears to be another example of Ancestry trees having another person's record attached to someone unrelated in their tree. :roll:

Also, you've probably seen that the Thomas Ward who sailed to America in 1920 on the "Rhode Island" was Scottish. According to the Passenger records, he appears to have been a seaman. Have you ruled him out yet? And if you rule out this Thomas Ward, do you also rule out Anna/Annie Clougherty? If not, can you advise where they settled in America please.
Last edited by VALLMO9 on 23 Feb 2021, 01:25, edited 2 times in total.

VALLMO9
Posts: 387
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by VALLMO9 »

jonwarrn wrote:
20 Feb 2021, 10:37
"In early 1942, she and 20 other local women were recruited from the Castledermot area to work in a munitions factory near Birmingham. She went to work at Guest, Keen & Nettleford’s factory in Smethwick"
I'm being thick here, but if May C Byrne went to work in Birmingham in 1942, does this mean she left those two young children in care in Ireland, as you suggest? Who did they grow-up with and where? Did they grow-up in Birmingham? :? :?

Also, if Mary Doyle (the mother named on the two Irish birth records) wasn't May C Byrne, then how did May come to raise both children (if that's what happened)?? Had the two women been friends or neighbours? Or did they work in the same munitions plant in Birmingham?

I'm still confused...
Last edited by VALLMO9 on 23 Feb 2021, 01:59, edited 2 times in total.

VALLMO9
Posts: 387
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by VALLMO9 »

Did either of the two Ward siblings (Mary Rose and Patrick) marry? If so, do you have their marriage certs? They should indicate what father Thomas Ward's occupation was.

windowframe
Posts: 38
Joined: 04 Jul 2020, 07:01

Re: Thomas Ward marriage

Post by windowframe »

Thank you for your help VALLMO9 and answer your questions:
1. I am aware of a tree on Ancestry,and some of the info is incorrect, but the person who put it on there, we do not correspond with each other,
no further questions on that one.
2. Thomas Ward was born in Galway,Ireland and not Birmingham, I have proof of that.
3, The Thomas ward as soldier is not ours, have already researched that one.
4. Thomas Ward sailed on "The Rhode Island" ship arriving in Philidelphia 10 January,1920. He was Irish not Scottish.This came from his
Declaration of Intention document to America.(I thought I had the shipping record, but not able to find, so maybe I did not look for it)
5. Now this is where we have a problem, we are not sure if and when did Mary C Byrne have the children, I know that one of the children born
1940 went into a convent at about 5 years old and the other child went into a christian bros place. so we are guessing that they were put there
so Mary C could work in Birmingham. But she went back to Ireland and the children must have been taken out of homes to live with Mary C in Dublin South until one got married in 1958. The other child did not get married.
Again, we are not sure if and how Mary C may have met Mary Ward, that is our mystery, maybe they did meet at the munitions factory and maybe
the real mother died being Mary Ward and maybe Mary C took on the children as her own, but that is not what has been led to believe, we always
thought that Mary C was married to Thomas Ward and that the children are theirs, but when we got the birth certs, it showed mother as Mary Doyle??
I have most certs and records as proof, except the marriage of Thomas Ward to Mary Doyle or Mary Byrne??? On the child's marriage cert. in 1958 it shows the father deceased and not his occupation.

.

Post Reply